The following is taken from trinimuslim forums , which was posted by brother Musa Millington, May Allah reward him.
This is a debate between the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama’ah (who believe that Allah is above everything) and the Maturidis/Asharis who do not believe thus. It also deals with their false claims about Ahlus Sunnah.
Debate about where is Allah
This is a bit technical but inshallah all of us will understand by Allah’s guidance.
Azhari Shaikh: You (the Salafis) have put Allah in a place
Shaikh Al Albani: May Allah be raised above this! This is a great lie .
The Shaikh then said: Then a research between myself and him came about
I (Shaikh Al Albani) said to him: Oh teacher! is place (Makaan) something present or absent?
Azhari Shaikh: No, it is something present
I said: And is what is present limited or unlimited?
Azhari Shaikh: Limited
I said: Ok let us research now: we are on the earth, what is above us?
Azhari Shaikh: The ifrst heaven.
I said: Until the seventh?
Azhari Shaikh: Until the 7th
I said: And above the seventh?
Azhari Shaikh: The throne.
I said: And above the throne what is there?
Azhari Shaikh: Above the throne are the Karuubeeyuun!
I said: And what are there Karuubeeyuun?
Azhari Shaikh: These are angels.
I said: Do you know a verse of the Qur’an that says that there are angels called Karuubeeyuun?
Azhari Shaikh: Nope
I said: Is there a Hadeeth from the Messenger (Salallahu alaihi wa sallam) that says this?
He said: Nope
I said: Then where did you get this belief from?
He said: O teacher! We leant this in Azhar
I said: O teacher! didn’t you leanr in Azhar that belief is taken (as they claim) only from an evidence that is sure and affirmed and sure in evidence, they build their belief upon this, that beliefs are not taken from an authentic Hadeeth except if it is Mutawatir (has ten narrators or above in every part of the chain)?
He said: Yes
I said: Not a verse, not a Hadeeth Mutawatir, not even a Hadeeth Aahad!! So where did you’ll get this belief from? In any case this is not the point, say that there are angels above the throne called Karabeeyuun: above these angels what is there?
He said: That is all, all is ended.
I said: Is there any place there?
He said: No
I said: We say that Allah is above the creation, therefore he is not in a place, because place (Makaan) is something created and limited, therefore he is not in a place, therefore when we describe Allah as he described himself why do you explain this belief and this statement which is contrary to what it is? Firstly: Your understanding is that the creation is limited, therefore why do you say: Allah is in a place according to these Mujassimah (those who make Allah similar to his creation) who are called Salaf As Salih, then you explain it contrary to the verses? Why don’t you submit your beliefs according to the evidences that are Mutawatir? Even some of the Imams of Hadeeth like Haafiz Adh Dhahabi wrote a small book which is specific to this which is called: Al ‘Uluuw Lil “alee Al ghaffar.
Notes: Allah is described as having ‘Uluuw Al Mutlaq. Meaning that he is above everything. However this doesn’t mean that he is in a place. Because of the fact that Makaan or place is something created and limited and Allah is above his creation and above any limitations.
However many claim that the Salafis say that Allah is in a place which is false.
They say that the Salafis (Ahlus Sunnah) but Allah in a direction
They say: You put Allah in a direction.
We say to them: So you mean by direction something that is present and created? Or do you mean by it what is outside of creation?
If they mean by this something that is present other than Allah then it is something created and Allah is above his creation and seperate from it.. but if what is meant by direction as something that is absent, meaning that it is above the creation then there is nothing except Allah alone that is above the creation.
Listen to Shaykh_Saalim_at-Taweel’s Beneficial points on the Benefits of talking about Allah being above the Creation!
[May Allah reward brother Talha Ibn Shahid who posted this audio]
- Check other excellent lectures of Shaykh_Saalim_at-Taweel
- Where Is Allaah? – Mahmud Murad – e-book
- The Transcendence (‘Uluw) of Allaah , Refuting Doubts and Misconceptions – by Saleh as Saleh -16 pages [PDF]